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Using Out of State Surgeon (Read 3266 times)
CarasMOM
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My 11 year old Cara has
MM.

Posts: 525
Sedalia, Missouri
Gender: female
Using Out of State Surgeon
Oct 1st, 2004 at 12:54pm
 
Its something I kept thinking about because before Cara had her MM surgeries...the local neurosurgeon who has done about 30 MM surgeries had told my husband and I that it would be of Cara's best interest to use him than to use one out of state in case of emergency after the surgery is long over.  And we used a local guy then he would know what to do because he was "in her head" and can recall how it was done and can "fix" whatever needed.   I didn't feel comfortable with him after he kept us waiting over an hour and half for an appt, kept telling us he would check with another radiologist and get back to us but never did and said it would do Cara more harm than good to do the stenting procedure (if there was one for kids he said)...and she was not ready for surgery "yet".   The more I read on this website it seemed most of you went quite a ways to a MM specialist anyway.   Bringing this up is because what Cara is going through now and especially reading about Lisa's stroke and her concerned about dealing with doctors who aren't familiar with MM.   Unless there is a good communication going between your out of state surgeon and the local guy....I always wonder where they get their "suggestions" when I am sure "we, mm family" are more aware of the details sometimes. (I may be wrong)  Cara's neurologist was amazed at how I had typed up a description of Cara's procedure or whatever...something he would not describe to me but we all learn from researching and reading other posts..piece by piece...it becomes clearer but the variations are different but the label still says "MM".    That brings to an important question when you have your surgery elsewhere...it would be good to ask....what can I do if I have problems once I am back at home what would you suggest I do?...I got an phone number that would lead me to the Dr. Meyers resident doctor who will get in touch with him further if needed....but that resident (who was in on both of Cara's operations) won't be there forever.    I was wondering what everyone thought about this on their end. 

Smiley Smiley Smiley CarasMOM
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Warm Hugs and Prayers, CarasMOM (Carol)
 
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newmmdad
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Perry, USA, usa, 309, 128, IA, Iowa
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Re: Using Out of State Surgeon
Reply #1 - Oct 1st, 2004 at 7:44pm
 
WOW!!! You really tossed a "hot potato" into the ring with this one!!!  ;Grin

We chose to go to one of the specialists for many reasons, even though the nearest one is 1400 miles away.  Our thought process/decision making went something like this:

1.  Even though we have a LOT of faith in the neurologist and neurosurgeon 30 miles from home, they have NO experience with MM.

2.  The intensivist who has been in on almost every procedure done on Sean throughout his life recommended a specialist.  (We were told that Univ. of Iowa ... a great facility 150 miles away ... had only done one MM surgery on an adult.  Our doc said, "no way is Sean going there!"  We checked Mayo (240 miles)website and found no references to MM there.  Then we found this site!)

3.  We decided that we wanted a surgeon/anesthesia team that had performed at least 50 MM surgeries.  For most procedures our threshold is 100 procedures performed; since MM is rare, we cut our expectations in half.

4.  We contacted BCH with our request for a referral for someone who had done at least 50 pediatric MM surgeries ... they could find no one in the midwest who fit our requirements outside of BCH.  They did invite us to contact Stanford to verify what they were telling us.

I have heard the argument used by surgeons that the first one "in" should be the only one "in" to a given patient.  That does make a certain degree of sense, I suppose.  But in the case of MM, they like to wait 4 to 6 weeks after the most recent stroke event to do surgery anyway, so IMHO the argument "that it would be of Cara's best interest to use him than to use one out of state in case of emergency after the surgery is long over." is moot.

Let me share an example:
We used to have a foster son who weighed only 11 oz. at birth.  He had multiple surgeries on his torso/trunk when he was a newborn.  One year later while living with us he was at risk of incarcerated hernia.  We, working with his bio parents, chose to use a local internist to do the hernia repair AGAINST the advice of the surgeon 150 miles away who had "been in his gut and knew his plumbing".  

With todays imaging techniques and the ability of hospitals to share information electronically, it was simple to get good pictures of the little guys plumbing (liver in the wrong place, etc.) into the hands of the local surgeon.  Everything went well, the child just turned 3 and he is back with his bio-family!

From what I have learned about MM in the past month, I have trouble comprehending the advice some have received from their local neuro docs .... not ready for surgery yet; let's try to treat with blood thinners only; not a candidate for surgery; etc.  I know that each case is different and that my research has focused on what applies to Sean specifically, but some of you appear to have really been through the wringer when it comes to getting what you need!  We are lucky to have a local neurologist who truly wants to learn from the pros and has asked us to keep good notes to share with her!

To answer your question ... communication between the "out of state doc" and your primary care physician is of paramount importance.  Do all you can to get those relationships started as soon as possible.  Do whatever you can to help facilitate those lines of communication.  Don't stop 'til you get what you need.

Smiley  Smiley  Smiley  Smiley

This post was so long, I didn't think two cents would be enough.

Hope this helps more than it muddies the water!

Steve
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« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2004 at 7:46pm by newmmdad »  

Sean's Dad - Steve&&Perry, IA&&"music comes straight from the heart"
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Michell
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Re: Using Out of State Surgeon
Reply #2 - Oct 2nd, 2004 at 1:23am
 
We didn't use a MM Specialist or an out of state doctor, just an out of town one.

Our Neurosurgeon and Neurologist is at Children's Hospital in Birmingham, AL which is 2 1/2 hours away.  We were really torn on whether or not to use a specialist, in the end the specialist didn't get back to us concerning Trey's records and films, or since the surgeries, our emails and the Neurosurgeon in Birmingham told us that the surgery was needed soon due to Trey's vessels closing more instead of opening when the Spec Scan was done.

Although 2 1/2 hours isn't as far as some, the way we handle everything is: (1)we have a great Neurologist that answers emails and all of our questions, (2)we were given some general worry advice (dehydration, seizures, etc.) and (3) we keep our pediatrician informed so that he can admit Trey if need be to do testing and to transfer if have to (I really hope we never have to again).

Communication is the best thing.  I know having the Neurologist at my finger tips has helped me alot, although Trey's chart is probably extremely thick due to my finger tips. Smiley

Good luck!
Michell
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mg12061
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Albany, USA, usa, 492, 84, NY, New_York
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Re: Using Out of State Surgeon
Reply #3 - Oct 2nd, 2004 at 10:17am
 
   For us I guess there was "no questioning" using Dr. Scott at BCH.My thinking was similar to Steve and Michelle,The communication and experience of the surgeon are the most important componants here.Our neurologist was in contact with Dr. Scott before he even came to us with the diagnosis.He also had all his interns researching this disease right away.From all that we found the actual surgery (along with the anasthesia)is the most risky part of this disease.After care seemed to be pretty "routine" if you knew all the precautions. As Steve put it there really are no emergencies(after surgery)We did have some before though and Our dr. was right on the phone with Dr. Scott.  They will not do any  operations imediatly after a stroke anyway.So there is alwasy time. We too have a great primary care Dr. who knows all the precautions, He actually had to talk to Dr. SCott once last year when her red blood count was high. They then worked out a plan together.We also have a great neurologist who takes all his cues from Dr. Scott. Dr. Scott also said if Kahtleen ever needs surgery for anything else his anasthesiologist will be happy to talk to our local ones about any extra precautions to take with Kathleen.With all the new technology I really don't feel too far away from Dr. Scott.It hasn't been any tougher to communicate with him than it is with a local Dr.he's very good at responding to e-mails quickly.Kathleen had some very seriouse problems after surgery and I was soooo glad that we were at one of the best Childrens Hospitals at that time.Just my 4 cents........
Mary Grace
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LisaH
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Be thankful in all circumstances

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ArlingtonHts, USA, usa, 358, 120, IL, Illinois
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Re: Using Out of State Surgeon
Reply #4 - Oct 3rd, 2004 at 9:18pm
 
Carol,

Boy, is this subject something that I am struggling with right now and a huge source of anxiety!  The key, to me anyway at this point, is to find a neurologist (or any type of doctor I guess) near you that is willing to consult with and be willing to accept opinions and suggestions from the out of state surgeon when situations arise.  Yes, you are right Carol, communication is an absolute necessity!  Sounds easy but I am having such a difficult time (you wouldn't believe!) finding a doctor that will let go of the ego thing and work with Dr. Steinberg- even though they are the first to admit that they have very little or no knowledge of MM.   The many doctors I am encountering just refuse to acknowledge that it would benefit me, and them, if they would just let go of the control thing- and I believe it is a control thing.   It's frustrating and I don't get it!  I do think it's imperative though to have some doctor near you, that you can trust and has some knowledge of what's going on, in case of emergency.

Now, I have a question that hopefully those that have out of state surgeons can answer.  Can an out of state doctor order tests at a hospital near you?  Must they go through a doctor in your state or can they just do it on their own?  I know that my doctor in state can call up a hospital that he is not affiliated with, but that is nearer to me, and order tests but does that extend to out of state doctors?  Dr. Steinberg wants me to have certain tests and the tests performed a certain way.  If the doctors here in my state won't cooperate with him and if I just can't go to Stanford for tests right now, how do I get the tests?   I'm just spinning my wheels here (I haven't been able to ask Dr. Steinberg about this as of yet) and I'd appreciate any knowledge anyone might have about this.

Thanks,
Lisa
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"Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--I took the one less traveled by, and that has made all the difference." - Robert Frost
 
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Michell
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Re: Using Out of State Surgeon
Reply #5 - Oct 4th, 2004 at 1:57am
 
We are just cities away from our Neurologist and Neurosurgeon group, but to my knowledge or the way they have done it so far is if they want to have blood work done on Trey they write an order or call his pediatrician and have him order the labs.  We have to go to Birmingham for any other type of tests.  In the case where Trey had both of the strokes the pediatrician consulted on the phone with the Neurologist and they together (probably more the Neurologist) decided what tests to do and lab work and the pediatrician again did the ordering for local things.

So, I don't know if it is this way for everyone, but that is how they have worked it for Trey.  Good luck, Lisa.

Michell
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