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"unsuitable" vein (Read 4323 times)
yvonne
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"unsuitable" vein
Jan 22nd, 2007 at 12:52pm
 
Hi,
   Sorry just checking is anyone suffered cut of vein in the leg and found to be "unsuitable" for the bypass? I was diagnosed with moyamoya in 2003 and had the right STA MCA bypass in 2004 and left EDAS 15/11/06. I was told that the vein (15cm) cutted from my right leg has not been use for this bypass surgery. What are the test needed to be done before surgery?



Yvonne
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shgr
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Re: "unsuitable" vein
Reply #1 - Jan 22nd, 2007 at 10:23pm
 
So, I'm not sure if I totally understand.  So, the docs are saying that one of the blood vessels in your leg is not suitable for use in a by-pass surgery? Did they say why? Size of the vessel? Quality of the vessel? Is this the same surgeon that did your other surgeries?  I hope that you find out that this was a mistake.  Have you thought about getting a second opinion? 
good luck and keep us updated,
steph
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Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all. Dale Carnegie
 
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yvonne
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Re: "unsuitable" vein
Reply #2 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 1:49am
 
Hi Steph,
             Sorry for not making myself clear enough...yes he did both of my surgery however the second one was done  on 15/11/06 and I was in so much pain and not always alert of what is going on and I was told that the vein (15cm) cutted from my right leg was found to be unsuitable (too narrow, too short)for the bypass and they had to cut  others vein in my brain to do it. And there is 5cm injury on my forehead (2nd degree "burn") also resulted from this surgery. What a thing to go through and this is really bad for my recovering... hence I needed to know what went wrong.... there is absolutely No test/scan was done before my surgery and they base on the angio done in 2004 to perform the second surgery. I tried countless time but to no avai nothing has been done and just proceed with the surgery without knowing anything .... still having so much pain and headache after my surgery hence needed to know if anyone go through the same situation like me?


Yvonne


Yvonne
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moyamoi
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Re: "unsuitable" vein
Reply #3 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 5:51pm
 
I've got to say that I'm confused about this.
I had 2 STA-MCA bypasses and the only veins they used were in my head!
I apologise for being ignorant but I have never heard of using a leg vein for this surgery? Smiley The only time my leg vein came into the equation was when I had my angio done. Anyway I do not profess to know everything about anything so I am interested to know if they do use leg veins for this?
I do however, have a problem with them using an angio that they did a couple of years before your surgery though - they should be working off an angiogram that was taken a couple of days before surgery so that they had the most up to date copy of what was going wrong.
As far as tests go there is a list on the website about tests performed before surgery, and I, myself had an MRI and angio and a SPECT BEFORE they even went near my brain!I would be seeking a second opinion on what you are going through as quite frankly I would be VERY CONCERNED about putting my fate and health in these "professionals"hands. There are plenty of medicos around who are willing to look out for their patients and as said thousands of times before on this board - You need an expert with MM experience.
Moira
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« Last Edit: Jan 23rd, 2007 at 5:52pm by N/A »  
 
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shgr
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Re: "unsuitable" vein
Reply #4 - Jan 23rd, 2007 at 7:22pm
 
I totally agree with Moira.  I am undertanding your story more fully now and I am quite concerned for you.  I think you really should consider getting a second opinion, Yvonne.  I know the prospect of changing docs might be daunting, but think of how daunting it could be to continue under the treatment of a surgeon who might not be giving you expert MM care.  I would highly recommend you contact another surgeon. Where do you live? Not sure of the flag...
I am so sorry to hear about your terrible headaches and struggles. 
Stephanie
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Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all. Dale Carnegie
 
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kotipup
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Re: "unsuitable" vein
Reply #5 - Jan 25th, 2007 at 12:07am
 
I just want to echo the posts you've already recieved.  I have not heard of a leg vein being used for a moyamoya bypass surgery  (usually they use a superficial artery from the scalp region). 

As far as pre-surgery tests, usually, you have an MRI, an angiogram and SPECTS (with and without diamox -- a vasodilator) -- all of the head region.  Usually, these tests are repeated at regular intervals post-surgery.

I think it is incomrehensable that they would do a second surgery going by two-year-old tests.  I would definitely look into getting a 2nd opinion.

If you need a referral to a doctor in your area, go to the main discussion board page -- there is a page where website users recommend surgeons.  Or, start a new post here asking others for recommendations.   One warning: you may have to travel to find a qualified, exprienced moyamoya surgeon, as it is still considered a "rare" disorder.

If there is anything we can do, please don't hesitate to ask us!

Jenny (mom to Daphne www.daphnestory.com)
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patch
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Re: "unsuitable" vein
Reply #6 - Feb 3rd, 2007 at 9:20pm
 
Hi

Just an fyi.

A donor vein from the leg can be used when the super ficial temporary artery is not viable.

When I had my surgeries in Nov 2005, the pre operative angiogram was the deciding factor in using a donor vein from my temple for my left STA-MCA.
A fellow adult MM in hospital at the same time, had a donor vein from her leg used in her third surgery.

Both of us were aware that this would be done prior to the surgeries.

regards

Helene
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Emily
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Re: "unsuitable" vein
Reply #7 - Feb 5th, 2007 at 4:35am
 
ahhhhhhhhh i just spent about 15 minutes writing a detailed reply to this and then my browser window vanished!!.. spewing...
i will try again...

- firstly i'll go ahead to back up helene's comment: it is quite common to consider an artery/vein from the leg for use in an DIRECT bypass.. i know that before entering the operating theatre for both my sugeries my leg was prep-ed just in case.. [ie. cleaned up etc... before i went under]

- as for determining exactly which artery will be used BEFORE surgery -> that is actually much more difficult than you'd think.. for starters, a lot of surgeons will not want to conduct another angiogram.. apart from being necessary for the diagnosis, they can be quite DANGEROUS for mm patients.. particularly if it is "close" to strokes and/or other surgeries.. (close being subjective... can be up to 2 yrs easily...) i know that my surgeon refuses to have me undertake another angiogram.. even though we're both quite "interested" in how it would look, the risks far outweigh the benefits (and often the information taken will not actually effect the decisions regarding surgery). Also, neither an MRI, CT or SPECT scan show enough detail (or the right kind of detail) to give appropriate information about the sizes/locations of arteries. so.... going into an operation the surgeon will have an idea about which artery they want to use for a direct bypass  [nominally the superficial temporal artery] however, whether this will work and where exactly it's located is different for every patient and cannot be determined until they make the incision - as you can tell by comparing the different scar locations for different mm patients. (so to answer your question about the tests that need to be done to select the appropriate artery before surgery... well there isn't much at this stage that can confirm the suitability of an artery/vein prior to surgery)..

- it is not unreasonable to expect that a number/combination of arteries may be required to complete the bypass... especially seeing as it's such a complex procedure [incl. anaesthetic] and so once "in" they are going to want to get everything they can done in one sitting, as opposed to wanting to go in again... i'm not sure about the "burn" you are referring to... that confuses me... but the "injury" on your forehead was perhaps due to another incision that had to be made? this could definitely cause a lot more pain.. esp if a skull incision had to be made also [which is most likely if they had to use other vessels to introduce more bloodflow into the brain].

- so.. while it is very unfortunate that you are still experiencing a lot of pain... 3 months down the track.. i don't think you should be freaking out too much... perhaps check in with your doctor.. have they seen the wounds? monitored the healing?

- also.. how are you feeling irrespective of the superficial injuries? has the increased bloodflow helped/been obvious yet?

it is very common - and expected! - to take anywhere from 3 months to 6 months to recover and heal from this kind of surgery.. so perhaps just be patient, take it easy and don't be too hard on yourself or your system.. and i hope this resolves soon...

i've always been told by "my" medical team that with this condition, if in doubt about how you are feeling - particular post-surgical, contact a medical practitioner of some kind!!
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